Special performance in class on Monday

18 Responses to “Special performance in class on Monday”

1. stephanie on October 27th, 2008 11:56 am

   after the Birth performance today i dont think i want to have kids. c-section your in pain and natural delivery your traumatized. no thanks.

2. Alex on October 27th, 2008 2:29 pm

   I would have to say that I agree to some extent. I felt the performances really highlighted all of the negative aspects of birth, and very little of the positive.

   Whether I want children in the future is entirely to far away for me to know but I definitely walked out of the performance today with a whole new perspective, and it was not a good one.

   I feel like the dangers and complications of childbirth should still but presented-its good to know-but there should be more emphasis on the end result-bringing another human being into the world.

3. Lisely Laboy on October 27th, 2008 6:38 pm

   I don’t feel that the presentation in class today was too negative at all. I thought it was beautiful and very real.

   Long before today I’ve always had candid conversations with my mother and other close female friends and family about their experiences during the births of their children (whether it was completely natural, induced {as my own birth wa}, medicated against pain, or by C-section)and the stories I’ve heard have always been similar to the ones we heard today. Birth is beautiful and natural and everyone should recognize the beauty of bringing a healthy and wanted child into the world, but at the same time, it’s not a walk in the park. It painful, complicated and often dangerous and I for one appreciated the bluntness and honesty of today’s performance.

   While I don’t plan to have children for a long while yet, today’s performance only served to enhance my desire to fully embrace the future experience of birthing my children.

4. Tim on October 27th, 2008 8:44 pm

   honestly the only thing I disliked about the monologues was the consistently anti-medical undertones I inferred.

5. Naomi on October 28th, 2008 10:15 am

   Thank you all for listening to our play and hearing the messages it contained with an open mind. It was cool to have the opportunity to perform for you. (I was the lady that shouted “My body ROCKS!”)

   I really want to add my own personal thoughts to the hopper, on what a few people touched on as negative views of birth and of the medical establishment. While it is true that many women experience “pain and craziness” with their births – that does not have to be the norm! Screaming and gyrating like a snake may happen for some, yes…epidurals and episiotomies and C-sections do take place and in some cases, have their place. I had an unplanned C-section the first time after a long labor and I’m having a VBAC (Vaginal Birth After Cesarean) at home in March.

   What is the most important to me, as I prepare to have my second birth in March is to have trust in my body and what it is designed to do. I do not fear birth as there is no need to – a woman that goes into labor and birthing without fear need not anticipate pain! Pain is brought on and exaggerated by the “fight or flight” response that often times is triggered by the intimidation and coldness of the hospital and all its monitors, rules and limitations.

   And here is where the anti-medical undertones start coming into play. Most women experience unnecessary interventions that lead them down a path to a riskier and more unsatisfactory birth for both them and their baby. As birth is not a disease or a sickness, why must it take place in the hospital? The truth is, it need not. Home (or a birth center) is a warm, comfortable place – where you can be attended to by midwives and doulas that have your best interests at heart and they are trained to give you very safe, professional care. And where most importantly, YOU are in charge…free to eat, drink, change positions as YOU feel necessary. SO important to successful birthing.

   Well, I could go on, but my main points I think I got out…birth is a journey that you all are only now just encountering from the outside. I encourage you, as you enter that period of your life where you will have children, to think about it critically. Do your research, read many books, don’t assume that what worked or didn’t work for your friends and relatives is right for you! Don’t wait until after you’ve HAD a negative birth experience to seek a positive one.

   Again, thank you for the opportunity to reach out to you. :)

   - Naomi (aka “Amanda” or MY BODY ROCKS lady)

6. Rae Davies on October 28th, 2008 10:18 am

   Thank you all for your candid questions during the talk back after the performance and for your remarks on the comment cards.

   A few comments –

   Firstly, please realize that you saw the “cliff notes” of a two hour play so the whole story of each birth wasn’t shared.

   Fathers – several of you asked about the role of fathers. They are a very important part of birth – fathers serve as the major support person for the mother, consequently couples need to attend a comprehensive childbirth education class to have the information and skills to create a memorable birth experience.

   Negative views – many comments addressed “fear” about having a baby. Fear can be eliminated by researching options AND most importantly appreciating what our bodies are capable of. Labor and birth is a normal physiological event and the experience can be very empowering – aim for empowering and trust the process, it’s amazing. Remember when you see a birth without fear you are seeing strength and power and hearing the sounds of a woman that is competently working to birth her baby. Again, I encourage you to see the film Orgasmic Birth http://www.orgasmicbirth.com to view birth from other perspectives.

   More information – for evidence-based reports on what improves outcomes http://www.childbirthconnection.com, for Mother-Friendly Childbirth http://www.motherfriendly.org, for articles on an anthropoligical view http://www.davis-floyd.com.

   Rae Davies – post-performance speaker
   http://www.thebirthcompany.com

7. beth on October 28th, 2008 10:30 am

   Ok. Well- the first thing is that I urge you all to see the full performance. The performance you saw was just an excerpt. It is possible to have a beautiful, intense, satisfying birth-but you have to do your research and know exactly what you want. After the performance Rae talked some about orgasmic birth-there is a good website if you have interest.
   http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/
   I know some parts of the play do seem anti-medical. I think this is because after talking with hundreds of women Karen Brody noticed how intervention in birth lead to less than satisfying outcomes for the mother.
   Modern medicine has it’s place in our birthing culture for sure- but most of what is done for birthing women today is counterintuitive. The lithotomy position is the least desirable birthing position in terms of physics and the natural human form (but easiest for doctors)- the drugs used to induce do have harmful side-effects and C-sections have a mortality rate 4X higher than vaginal birth. The reality is that as birthing Moms and Dads in the U.S. we have turned over the responsibility of a good birth outcome to the medical establishment.
   It is simply amazing that you all are thinking about birth and talking about birth. Just don’t stop.

8. Rachel on October 28th, 2008 1:44 pm

   Please attend for a possible panel on this topic by your TA’s who are Moms and Dads in Wednesday’s class time.

9. Kathryn on October 28th, 2008 6:26 pm

   So we don’t have another lecture on Wednesday? We aren’t learning anything…? Don’t we have a test coming up?

10. Tiffany on October 28th, 2008 8:25 pm

    Even if it’s not a lecture I’m sure we will be learning…and chances are that there might be test questions on the next exam pertaining to the activity. You saw how in depth our last exam was…

11. Mary aka Jillian on October 28th, 2008 9:36 pm

    I totally agree with the viewers who found the play to be negative- As a childbirth educator and birth activist I have issues with that-
    too bad your test cant be on orgasmic birth which is what real birth IS in the positive,
    check it out
    http://www.orgasmicbirth.com
    your potential overwhelms me, have fantabulous lives!
    Mary Rainer

12. Brian DiDea on October 29th, 2008 12:09 pm

    I didn’t like the anti-medical aspect of the performance as well. While I know that many people do not agree with using modern techniques for child birth, many do, and for many, modern techniques have saved both the mothers’ and the babies’ lives. I would think that it would be somewhat selfish for a mother to consider how she wants her baby to be born more important than the safety of the child itself. Now i dont mean that in an offensive way at all, but i just think that if i was a mother and i was having a child, id listen to every word the doctors told me to make sure my baby was as healthy as possible.

13. V on October 29th, 2008 9:32 pm

    I found the “panel discussion” today quite disappointing. Talk about negativity! First of all, I think the play was intended for Western culture and how we have medicalize birth so the TA’s argument about third world countries doesn’t really apply at all. Maybe I am giving the play and its actors the benefit of the doubt here but I think it’s safe to say that they are aware of the benefits of modern medicine. I found the play eye opening in the sense that it touched upon the benefits of giving a more “natural birth”. Some of the TAs (and Gravlee) discussed how hospitals are incorporating different methods to make the mother feel more comfortable and safe.

    The views in this play are shared with a lot of European countries as well. I think the play was trying to introduce this generation to the benefits of having a baby more naturally. We’ve grown up with a precenption of what birth is suppose to be like and it doesn’t necesarily have to be that way.

    Lastly, I just want to point out that the play was…well a play. An artistic expression. Hillary (TA on the left) was the only person that touched upon that fact. I think once the majority of people realize that, the whole “the play was too negative” falls apart. As an artists, I’ve certainly overemphasized one aspect of an issue and hoped people understood that certain things where implied without me saying them.

14. Tim on October 30th, 2008 2:32 am

    @V, That’s a fair argument, though I don’t think the play’s artistic value is the point of the discussion, or it’s presentation in lecture. (though this is of course only my interpretation of the intent)

    When I said that it had an overly anti-medical tone I only meant that it seemed to portray the arguably negative aspects of medicines influence on the birthing process. While of course there are negatives, there are also immense benefits that one could argue outweigh these negative aspects. A primary argument being the differences in highly medical nations infant-mortality rates in high risk pregnancies versus those in low medical nations (I apologize for the awkward phrasing).

    This being said, of course there for some women are significant psychological and emotional benefits to the practice of uninduced/non-cesarean/non-epidural etc. birth.

    I think ultimately that the message of ‘having a birth-plan, but not being unwilling to alter it should it be necessary for a woman’s own survival and the survival on the child’ is what should really be taken to heart.

    I don’t think anyone will try to argue that no mother should engage in the ‘natural birthing’ process, but that for many the ‘medical birth’ provides needed care and security.

15. Suzanne Grieb (TA) on October 30th, 2008 11:08 am

    V (and the class at large):

    After Monday’s class, I was upset by the presentation’s negativity and anti-medical sentiment. This concern was echoed by other TAs and students. Thus, we agreed that more must be said to balance the material.

    The performance on Monday was indeed an artistic expression and should be considered as such. However, based on the literature advertising it, this performance was meant as a tool to increase awareness about the dangerous rate of C-sections performed in the US. partly due to the medicalization of birthing. However, this message, if it was there at all, was lost in the stories. Instead the message seemed to be birth=pain and hospitals=evil. This is irresponsible, in my opinion, on the part of the artist when the piece is presented as a tool for learning.

    The supposed message is important. C-sections are increasing partly due to medicalization. Induction of births is increasing, often for the convenience of the mom or doctor, which can cause fetal distress and increase the need of a C-section delivery. Epidurals are also now common because birth has been taken out of a natural context and this too increases the risk of a C-section. When an epidural is given, the baby is affected as well and is less able to help maneuver him/herself through the birth canal (yes, the baby has an active role in birth). There is much to be said about this medicalization and many points we can improve upon to increase the safety of women and babies.

    To be fair, however, this is not the sole cause of the maternal health problems in the US. What we tried to relay yesterday is that there is an important role for the hospital in childbirth. Other issues affect the outcomes of birth and the risk of C-section delivery, such as obesity and diabetes (which cause babies to be larger).

    We could spend a whole semester on this topic. Ultimately, the goal is education so that women may know their options and feel confident in deciding what is best for them. This is truly how to empower women in childbirth. Additionally, we must increase awareness that the messages of birth shown in the media of yelling women (i.e. the delivery in Knocked Up), is not necessary. Birth is a natural process for which our bodies are designed. I agree, V, that we need to readjust our thinking. At the same time, we must also acknowledge the role of medicine in improving maternal and infant health. Finding a balance here is the hard part I suppose.

    If we were unsuccessful in the panel in providing alternate views, or came off as negative in a different direction, then I apologize as that was not our intent. This debate is incredibly important for everyone, as most of you will become parents at some point. Please continue expressing your thoughts and asking questions.

16. Noelle Sullivan on October 30th, 2008 3:16 pm

    Hi all. I’m not in the class but am a anthropology grad student and have talked about my birthing experience in previous ANT 2301 classes. One of the TAs turned me on to this discussion. I hope you don’t mind if I share something.

    I had my baby in a bathtub at the Birth Centre of Gainesville. And while I personally would never *choose* to have a baby another way, you have no choice but to go with the flow when it comes to the birthing process–wherever it may take you. I do know MANY women who have had really rewarding experiences in the hospital. However, I have also met many, many women who had second and third births at home or at birth centers because the hospital experience wasn’t very good.
    And while I haven’t met any women who had bad experiences in a birth center or home birth, I’m sure they’re out there. Ultimately, every woman’s experience is unique regardless of where or how the birth takes place.

    I do not think the comment of ‘having a baby in the safest way possible’ and therefore being in the hospital has much weight, only because many of the technological interventions that are standard in hospitals cause the very complications that put mothers and babies at risk (for example, chances for a c-section are much greater if epidurals and pitocin are introduced during the labor stage, and the use of fetal monitors immobilizes the woman, making the labor much more difficult and often creating the need for medical intervention). That being said, hospitals have their place, and I know many women planned midwife-assisted births and ended up in hospitals, and things would have turned out very badly had they not had hospital care available. And they were satisfied with their experience, and grateful.

    It’s hard to know what you will do until you’re in the situation. But I really think it’s important to consider where people feel most comfortable to give birth, because that is key. If the technology and expertise of the hospital gives you more comfort than the technology and expertise of a midwife, that’s probably where you should be. The number one thing that bothered me while pregnant and after giving birth was how many people had opinions about what I’d decided to do, and they felt perfectly justified in sharing them. The whole process is hard enough without having random strangers, let alone your friends and family, expressing their opinions about what is wrong with the decisions you’re making. It’s a very personal decision, and not one that I think anyone else has any business judging. The hope is that families-to-be do the research and make the decision that is right for them. And we should respect that, knowing that there are good experts available both for home births/birth centers, and in hospitals.

17. Jordan Peters on November 2nd, 2008 11:31 pm

    The underlying theme of Wednesday’s discussion on birth seemed to be, “Hey, let’s fetishize everything we perceive as ‘natural’ and equate hospitals, medicine, and doctors with big, evil technology. WHAT, ARE YOU ‘TOO POSH TO PUSH?’ WHY ARE YOU SUCH A FAILURE AS A WOMAN THAT YOU NEED A DOCTOR TO HELP YOU GIVE BIRTH? AND BY THE WAY, WHO THE HELL LET YOU OUT OF THE KITCHEN?”

    I mean, am I alone on this? My mother suffered less because a Caesarean let both of us live through a difficult breach birth. Granted, Caesareans are a considerable risk and I’m not doubting that some mothers are having their precious “birthing experience” (much like the “losing your virginity” experience: biology being overhyped by culture) ruined by pushy doctors, but demonizing them seems not only outright silly, but ultimately sexist (reinforcing “traditional” gender roles in any context seems to end up on that path more often than not, no?).

18. Karen Brody - the playwright! on November 3rd, 2008 1:15 pm

    Warm greetings to all,

    I was sent the link to your discussion by Heddy Vernon, the woman who produced my play in Gainsville and who brought you the short excerpt last week in class. Heddy encouraged me to engage with you all on this blog – which I’m delighted to do.

    I’ve read with great interest all of your postings and wanted to thank you all for expressing your opinions and feeling passionate about this topic. Obviously it’s a topic that I feel passionate about too!

    I’m not writing to convince you to have any other reaction than the one you’ve expressed. In fact, I see how the play can be interpreted as anti-medical. What’s ironic to me is that since the play has been performed when I’ve surveyed the medical community with their reactions about half think the play unjustifiably trashes the medical model of care and half think it’s a completely accurate portrayl of childbirth inside the medical system today. (like the head of Obstetrics of a hospital in New York City who sat on a talkback panel after the play and said “this is exactly what’s happening in labor and delivery rooms and it needs to stop”).

    What’s even more interesting to me is that when midwives are surveyed I’ve received pretty much the same feedback: about 40 percent of midwives feel the play unjustifiably trashes midwives and 60 percent think it’s accurate. When mothers are surveyed whether they think this play represents birth today the numbers swell to over 80 percent.

    What this tells me is that there is no doubt childbirth is in crisis in America and that this “picture” of birth is hard to accept. It’s hard to believe our institutions (hospitals, doctors, insurance companies) are not listening to mothers? It’s hard to believe a pregnant woman can walk into a hospital today and the only first method of induction available to her is cytotech, a drug that is not FDA approved for obstetrics and has a track record of maternal death. Cytotech is cheaper and induces women faster than its counterpart, cervadil, but what about the risks to mother and babies? When are mothers going to come first when it comes to giving birth? That’s what this play is asking you to think about, that’s what this play is showing you in the eight stories.

    I was recently at a performance of the play in Philadelphia and a person stood up and gave a similar critique of the play to what I’ve read on this blog – that the play is anti-medical – and my reaction was yes, the play is a critique of the medical system. When you see in the play a woman who has the potential to have a wonderful birth experience (Natalie’s story) and she is violated by being given an episiotomy without her consent instead of getting mad at the play for criticizing the medical system how about getting inspired to change the system that led to this oppression?

    And let me be clear, I don’t feel it’s the obstetricians who are the only “bad guys.” Oppression is never that simple. It’s a complex cocktail of power.

    Have any of you seen Michael Moore’s film SICKO? I’d encourage you to see it because if you understand the fundamental problems of healthcare today it would be easier to swallow the pill of why maternity care is not working for many women. Not all women, but in general the atmosphere today for a low-risk woman to have a safe, gentle birth in a hospital is tough.

    YET…there are women taking back birth and having wonderful birth experiences in birth centers and at home and even at some groovy hospitals where the labor and delivery nurses are allowed to let women’s labors unfold without unnecessary interventions. It can and does happen. We just need it to happen more and for all low-risk women.

    Notice I say low-risk women. My play is about how low-risk women are giving birth. If a woman is truly high risk then she is always best served seeing a high risk doctor and having appropriate interventions. Interventions aren’t wrong – women just need to be educated about them and use them appropriately.

    Well, I’ve probably said enough for now!

    Again, thank you all for your comments. Keep ‘em coming!

    Karen

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